좀 기니까 바이에른 뮌헨이나 분데스리가 관련 내용만 옮길게요
편의상 반말 구어체로 옮기겠습니다. 나이관계 그런거 몰라요(...)
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Xabi Alonso is a midfield maestro. In what has been a stellar career, his highlights include unforgettable Champions League wins with Liverpool and Real Madrid and helping Spain conquer the world.
He is now aiming to make history with Bayern Munich and, in his first interview with an English newspaper since moving to Germany, he outlined his ambitions to Sportsmail's Jamie Carragher.
-> 독일로 온 후로는 영어권과의 인터뷰는 이게 처음입니다
Xabi Alonso (left) and Jamie Carragher were reunited by Sportsmail for an exclusive interview
CARRAGHER: The move to Munich happened very quickly. How did it come about? Had Pep Guardiola wanted you for a long time?
캐러거: 뮌헨으로의 이적이 순식간에 일어났잖아. 어떻게 된 거야? 과르디올라가 널 오랫동안 원했던 거야?
ALONSO: Well, it did happen quick, you are right, two weeks before the transfer window closed. I had been at Madrid for five years. We had won the 10th European Cup, we had been chasing it for a long time and it felt like the business was done. It was either a case of continuing for a few more years in Madrid or trying something different. Having experienced La Liga and the Premier League, it was a great chance to come here. The Bundesliga is getting better and this is one of the top clubs in the world.
알론소: 뭐, 빠르긴 했지. 이적시장 닫히기 겨우 2주 전이었으니까. 그 때 난 마드리드에서 5년차였지. 유럽 무대에서 10번째 우승컵을 들어올렸던 참이고. 그걸 위해 오랫동안 노력해왔는데, 그러고 나니 할 걸 다 한 것 같더라고. 그 다음으로는 마드리드에서 몇 년 더 머무르거나, 다른걸 시도하거나, 둘 중 하나였지.라리가랑 프리미어리그는 경험해봤으니까, 분데스리가 오기에 딱 좋은 기회였어. 분데스리가는 계속 발전하고 있고, 바이에른은 세계 최고의 클럽 중 하나니까.
CARRAGHER: Did you have any opportunities to return to England?
캐러거: 영국에 돌아갈 기회도 있었어?
ALONSO: No. I only had this option. There were times I heard some English clubs said 'what would he think', but my idea was to stay in Madrid. Then when I heard of Munich's interest I said 'Xabi, think what you want and where you will be happy'. I needed a fresh start somewhere. This might be my last experience in football. I came from my hometown team, Real Sociedad, to the best team in England (smiles); to the best team in Spain to the best team in Germany. It is a beautiful career. I wanted a nice football script. I cannot be a one-club man like you!
알론소: 아니, 선택지는 바이에른 하나 뿐이었어. 잉글랜드 클럽들이 관심을 보였던 적도 있었지만, 난 마드리드에 남아야겠다는 생각이었지. 그러다 바이에른이 내게 관심있다는 소식을 듣고는 '사비, 네가 원하는 것, 네가 행복할 수 있는 곳을 생각해라'라고 말했어. 새 출발이 필요했어. 이게 내 축구 인생에서 마지막 경험이 될 수도 있어. 난 고향 팀 레알 소시에다드에서 시작해서, 잉글랜드 최고의 팀 (웃음), 다시 스페인 최고의 팀, 그리고 독일 최고의 팀으로 왔지. 아름다운 커리어야. 화려한 이력을 남기고 싶었어. 너처럼 원클럽맨이 될 수는 없어!
Alonso joined Bayern Munich in the summer for the latest big move of his stellar career
The Spain playmaker, here in action for Bayern, has been one of the world's finest passers for over a decade
CARRAGHER: By coming here you have the potential to emulate Clarence Seedorf and become the second man to win the Champions League with three different teams.
캐러거: 바이에른에 왔으니, 클라렌스 세도르프처럼 될 가능성이 있겠네. 세 팀에서 챔스를 우승한 두 번째 축구선수가 되는거지.
ALONSO: For sure, that is one of the targets of the club and, personally, it would be a great achievement. I would never have dreamed I could be this close but I think we have a good enough team to fight for all the titles. It will be difficult as you are fighting against Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea, PSG, Juventus. Top clubs in Europe. We will see if we meet the challenge.
알론소: 물론, 챔스 우승은 바이에른의 목표이고, 개인적으로도 대단한 업적이 될 거야. 내가 여기까지 오리라고는 생각도 못했지만, 바이에른은 모든 타이틀을 차지하기에 충분히 좋은 팀을 가지고 있다고 생각해. 레알, 바르샤, 첼시, 파리, 유베를 상대로 싸우는 것은 어렵겠지. 유럽 최고의 팀들이니까. 우리가 해낼 수 있을지는 지켜봐야지.
CARRAGHER: What did you think when you saw the Champions League draw? You missed coming back to Anfield!
ALONSO: (puts hands over face) Oh my gosh! I was in the middle of doing my medical here. I came out from the scan and saw it...
CARRAGHER: Did you try and fail it!?
ALONSO: (laughs) There was a shock! I was thinking, 'I had a chance to go back to Anfield… aye, yai, yai'! I would have loved that. I'd love to play there once more. This season in the knockout stages? You never know. I still feel I have a special connection with Liverpool fans. Remember those nights we had? We felt we could beat anyone in Europe. Winning in Istanbul was beyond my dreams.
리버풀에 대한 이야기.
Carragher congratulates Alonso after scoring against Fulham at Craven Cottage in October 2004
The duo squeeze out Real Madrid striker Raul during a Champions League last-16 clash in 2009
CARRAGHER: You are in England on Tuesday to play Manchester City. You have already qualified from your group, so are you going there with intention of knocking them out? Do you see them as a threat?
캐러거: 이번 화요일에 맨체스터 시티와의 경기를 위해 잉글랜드에 오잖아. 이미 16강 진출을 확정지은 상황인데, 그래도 맨시티를를 혼쭐내줄 생각이야? 맨시티가 위협적이라고 생각해?
ALONSO: Of course they are a threat. If City go through, over two legs they can beat any team in Europe. Our job is to win. I want to play. Matches in England are special. City are in a difficult position, I understand this. I've worked with Manuel Pellegrini, they have players I know very well. I cannot sit here and say 'yes, I want to knock them out'. But, absolutely, I want to win.
알론소: 당연히 위협적이지. 맨시티가 조별리그를 통과한다면 유럽의 어떤 팀이든 이길 수 있는걸. 우리의 임무는 이기는 거야. 난 플레이하고 싶어. 잉글랜드에서의 플레이는 특별하지. 맨시티는 어려운 상황에 처해있다는걸 난 이해해. 난 펠레그리니와 함께해본 적이 있고, 잘 아는 맨시티 선수들도 있지. 내가 여기 앉아서 "그래, 난 걔들을 나가떨어지게 하고 싶다"고 말할 수는 없어. 하지만, 분명 난 승리하고 싶어.
Alonso is closed down by Manchester City's Yaya Toure in Munich in September - Bayern won the game 1-0
CARRAGHER: Do you wonder why City struggle in the Champions League? English clubs are finding it difficult in Europe. When we played together, there was a period when ourselves, Chelsea, Manchester United and Arsenal always reached the latter stages. What is the difference now?
ALONSO: From the outside, it is difficult to tell. First, the spell we had at Liverpool (two finals, one semi-final and a quarter-final, 2005-2009) isn't normal. That was an exception to football's rules. Maybe it is cyclical. Look at Dortmund, for example. They are not doing well in the league, but they have a great team in Europe. We have a great team. German football has become stronger. For the last couple of years, the leagues in Italy and England have not been that strong. But I think they will come back.
맨시티와 영국 팀들의 부진에 대한 이야기. '결국 돌고 돈다'.
Carragher and Alonso were reunited for the interview at Bayern Munich's training ground
The former team-mates enjoyed meeting up again and shared several big laughs together
Alonso makes a point, to the amusement of Carragher, who the Spaniard nicknamed 'Carradona' at Liverpool
리버풀에서 캐러거의 스페인식 별명이 카라도나(Carradona)라네요 ㅋㅋ 캐러거+마라도나?
The pair, who were at the heart of Rafael Benitez's Liverpool team, embrace and enjoy another laugh
Alonso sticks his chin out as he makes animated conversation during his superb interview by Carragher
CARRAGHER: But why? Look at when we played. We were strong defensively. So were United and Chelsea. Yes, you want to play good football. But you have to be strong, well organised. That's now a problem for English teams. They cannot go away from home and keep clean sheets yet they also can't stop the opposition getting away goals.
ALONSO: For sure. To be fighting at European level you need players who know how to play in the big games. Spanish and German teams have that. English teams have changed so much. Only now do Chelsea look solid. Liverpool did well last year but are struggling this season. It takes time. City have won the league twice in three years but they cannot find that mentality in Europe. That makes things difficult.
영국 축구팀 이야기
CARRAGHER: When we played in Europe under Rafa, we could attack, we could counter-attack and other times we would just defend - even at home. Last year, Madrid surprised Bayern by playing on the counter-attack. Here with Guardiola, every game he has a plan. How important is it to have different ways of playing?
캐러거: 우리가 라파 아래에서 유럽 리그에서 플레이했을 때, 우린 공세적으로 나갈 수도, 역습 위주로 나갈 수도 있었고, 가끔은 그냥 수비만 했었잖아. 홈에서도 말이지. 작년(사실 올해 초죠)에 레알이 역습으로 바이에른을 놀래켜줬지(ㅠㅠㅠㅠㅠㅠ). 바이에른에서 과르디올라는 매 경기마다 작전이 있어. 다양한 선택지가 있다는 것이 얼마나 중요하지?
ALONSO: Each team I see (that is successful) has to be comfortable playing with three systems. They need to adapt to each game, depending on the circumstances. It is not about not being loyal to your identity. No, no, no. It is about knowing your strengths and showing your players what you need to do each game to prepare in the right way. In Liverpool, we had a plan for each team. Every game is totally different. Let me give you an example. This season we have played with three defenders, sometimes four, sometimes five. You need to be able to manage at least three or four systems. It has nothing to do with betraying your principles.
알론소: 내가 보는 모든 (성공적인) 팀들은 세 가지 시스템으로 자유롭게 플레이할 수 있어야 해. 매 경기 상황에 따라 다르게 나올 수 있어야 하지. 이건 자신의 정체성을 소홀히하라는 얘기가 아니야. 전혀. 그저 자신의 강점을 알고, 선수들에게 각각의 게임에서 어떻게 플레이해야 할지를 보여주는 것이지. 제대로 준비하기 위해서. 리버풀에서는 각각의 팀에 맞춘 작전이 있었어. 매 경기마다 이 작전은 완전히 다르지. 예를 들어볼게. 이번 시즌에 우리는 수비수 셋을 두기도 했고, 가끔은 넷, 또 가끔은 다섯을 뒀어. 최소한 세 개나 네 개의 시스템을 적용할 수 있어야 돼. 원칙을 저버리는 것과는 전혀 다른 이야기야.
Steven Gerrard lifts the Champions League in 2005 as Alonso and Carragher celebrate (bottom right)
Carragher, Gerrard, Benitez, Alonso and Pepe Reina line up to show off Liverpool's new kits in 2006
CARRAGHER: It is good to hear you say that. In England the perception is that Barcelona and Spain win only by playing one way. That is a problem for City and Arsenal, especially in Europe. City just play 4-4-2. Look at Arsenal - they went to Borussia Dortmund and should have lost 5-0.
캐러거: 그렇게 말하니 반갑네. 잉글랜드에서는 바르샤랑 스페인은 항상 같은 방식으로 플레이하고 이긴다는 인식이 있어. 그게 맨시티와 아스날의 문제지. 특히 유럽 레벨에서. 맨시티는 그냥 4-4-2로 플레이할 뿐이야. 아스날도 봐봐. 도르트문트에 원정갔을 때는 5-0으로 패배해 마땅했지.
ALONSO: If you go out and play your own way, anything can happen. You might win. But if you are playing a quarter-final or a semi-final of the Champions League, you need a plan and to be able to control the game. If the opposition score and you don't have a plan? That's it. You need to anticipate what is going to happen. If the opposition change, you change.
알론소: 필드에서 자기 방식으로 플레이한다면, 무슨 일이든 일어날 수 있어. 이길 수도 있지. 하지만 만약 챔스 8강이나 4강 경기라면, 계획이 있어야 하고 또 경기를 지배할 수 있어야 하지. 실점을 했는데 그에 대한 대비책이 없다면? 끝난거지. 무슨 일어날지 예상해야 해. 상대가 변한다면, 우리도 변해야 해.
CARRAGHER: How can Bayern change? Do you think what happened with Madrid in the Champions League semi-final last season shows that teams have worked Bayern out?
캐러거: 바이에른은 어떻게 변할 수 있지? 지난 시즌 챔스 4강에서 레알이 승리한 건 바이에른을 계산하고 나왔기 때문이라고 생각해?
ALONSO: It is difficult to copy Real Madrid as not every team has those players who can run with such explosion, like Ronaldo.
알론소: 레알을 흉내내기는 어려워. 모든 팀이 그렇게 폭발력 있는 선수들을 가진 건 아니거든. 호날두 같은 선수 말야.
CARRAGHER: Is he the best player in the world? 호날두 짱짱맨?
ALONSO: For sure. I said recently if Manuel Neuer or another German player won the Ballon d'Or, it would be fair as they won the World Cup. But if Ronaldo wins it again, it would also be fair for the season he had, winning the Champions League. He is the best player I have played with. After you, of course!
물논.
국내 몇 기레기들의 농간으로 이 부분이 '호날두가 발롱도르를 받아야 한다'로 알려졌는데, 그렇지 않습니다. '독일 선수가 받아도 옳고, 호날두가 수상하더라도 옳다'라고 옮기는게 맞습니다. 무슨 호날두가 받아야만 옳다는 뉘앙스로 날조를 하네요.
Alonso poses for a portrait by Graham Chadwick (left) and in one of his most famous moments on the pitch (right), being on the receiving end of a kung-fu kick by Nigel de Jong in the 2010 World Cup Final
Alonso had the last laugh over De Jong as he lifted the World Cup with Spain in Johannesburg
CARRAGHER: People talk about the technique of English players. But a bigger problem, I feel, is their understanding of the game…
ALONSO: Yes, for sure. When I was in Liverpool, I was reading the programme before a match. In it, a 12-year-old from the academy was asked what his main strengths were. His answer? Shooting and tackling. I said to myself 'okay, but I don't think the main quality of player should be tackling'.
CARRAGHER: Have you seen Jack Wilshere play in the holding role? We usually have someone in England in that position who goes bang, bang, bang into tackles, not like you or Busquets, Kroos or Pirlo. Could it be a step forward for English football to have a player like Wilshere in that role?
ALONSO: Why not? Before there was Michael Carrick. He had the game intelligence. If you had combined him with other players, maybe he would have been an important figure in midfield.
영국 선수들의 문제점 이야기
Cristiano Ronaldo is the best player in the world and deserves to win the Ballon d'Or, says Alonso
Ronaldo and Alonso celebrate victory against Bayern in the Champions League semi-final last season
CARRAGHER: It is a debate in England that Wilshere is being used in that role. Do you think it's a problem having a footballer in there, rather than someone who is always thinking defensively?
캐러거: 윌셔가 그런 포지션에 배치된다는 것이 영국에서는 논란거리야. 수비적인 선수보다 윌셔 같은 선수를 거기 두는 게 문제라고 생각해?
ALONSO: You need someone who thinks, 'What is best: attack? Defence?' You have to know when to take two or three steps to make space, then you will be able to pass to someone between the lines. Players don't have to move. Pep says this always to Mario Gotze (jumps up and starts pointing). 'You! Don't run! Stay there! The ball will come to you. Don't move!' He shows clips to the team of Gotze standing still for 10 seconds. Pep works so much about the positional game. It is not about running everywhere. It is about you staying there and the others have to work to get it to you.
알론소: "공격과 수비, 무엇이 최선이지?"라고 생각하는 선수가 필요해. 언제 두 세 걸음을 나아가서 공간을 만들어야 할지 알아야 해. 그러면 두 선 사이에 있는 선수에게 패스할 수 있지. 선수들은 움직일 필요가 없어. 펩은 괴체에게 항상 이렇게 말해 (방방 뛰고 손가락으로 위치를 가리키면서). '괴체! 뛰지 마! 거기 있어! 공이 너한테 갈 거야. 움직이지 마!' 펩은 팀에게 괴체가 10초 동안 가만히 서 있는 동영상을 보여줘. 펩은 포지션의 문제에 관해 굉장히 노력해. 모든 곳을 뛰어다니는 것이 아니야. 자기는 자리에 있고, 다른 선수들이 공을 전해주기 위해 노력하는 거지.
Using Jack Wilshere (centre) as a holding midfielder could help England become a better side, says Alonso
Mario Gotze (centre) is regularly told by Pep Guardiola to work on his positioning, says Alonso
Alonso enjoys a beer with his wife Nagore Aramburo at Oktoberfest in Munich in October
CARRAGHER: You retired from international football in the summer. When the Spanish team used to get together, you must have talked about English players: how did you view them?
캐러거: 이번 여름에 국가대표에서 은퇴했잖아. 스페인 선수들이 소집되면, 영국 선수들에 대해서 얘기해줬겠지? 영국 선수들을 어떻게 생각해?
ALONSO: As individuals, all the Spanish players have great admiration for Stevie, Scholes, Rooney, Lampard…
알론소: 개인으로서, 모든 스페인 선수들이 대단히 존경하는 선수들이 있지. 스티비, 스콜스, 루니, 램파드 ...
CARRAGHER: Carragher?!
캐러거: 그리고 캐러거?!
ALONSO: (laughing) Carragher? Carragher (puts hands over face)! I'm talking about midfielders even though I called you Carradona! We had admiration but maybe the pieces of the (England) team didn't work so well. They asked me why. Is the problem the players? The manager? Why can't they make the right formula?
알론소: (웃음) 캐러거? 캐러거 (손으로 얼굴을 감싼다)! 내가 널 카라도나라고 부르긴 했어도, 난 미드필더 얘기 중이란 말이야! (이하 생략)
CARRAGHER: You had the right formula. It shows what a judge I am. When you came to Liverpool I said Spain would win nothing.
ALONSO: I know! I remember! What did you say (puts on fake Liverpool accent)? 'Spain? Spain! Can't run! Can't run!' You got the gold medal for the loudest player I played with. I remember at West Brom, in 2009. We are winning 2-0, the game is won and (Alvaro) Arbeloa tries to run the ball out of defence. He loses the ball. Next thing I hear this: 'Eh! You! Arbeloa! You're not Maradona!'
Alonso and Carragher exchange a high-five after beating Chelsea in the Premier League in 2008
The duo team up to tackle Blues striker Didier Drogba in the Champions League in 2005
Ten years after first playing together, Alonso and Carragher sit together for their interview
CARRAGHER: Which one player was vital to the success you had?
ALONSO: We had a strong spine. It wasn't about one man. It started with Iker (Casillas). He was key in at Euro 2008, then the World Cup, as was (Carles) Puyol. Then there was Sergio Ramos...
CARRAGHER: Really? Sometimes in England we think he can't be trusted.
ALONSO: When Sergio is on top of his game mentally, he's one of the best. In midfield we had (David) Silva, Xavi, (Andres) Iniesta, myself. Playing with so many midfielders was our strength. We didn't have great players in one-against-one situations. It took a lot of short passes to create the last chance. When we did, we had David Villa and Fernando Torres, who were on top form.
CARRAGHER: What does the future hold for you? Are you thinking of becoming a coach, a president?
ALONSO: A pundit (more laughter)! Probably, I will take my badges. I have lots of things in my mind. With the managers I have worked for, I have learned a lot. But you cannot take that step too quickly. Would I walk away from football? Sometimes you think you need that break.
CARRAGHER: What if I got rid of Gary Neville!? Would you do Monday night football?
ALONSO: No, I think I will just do the Champions League nights!
RAFA BENITEZ - He was a key manager in my career. He gave me the chance to make the step from my childhood team. Rafa is very analytical and really studies the game. I saw how he planned for games and it made me a more mature player. I was very grateful for what he did to me.
라파 베니테스 - 내 커리어에서 핵심적인 감독이었다. 내가 유소년 팀에서 한발짝 더 내딛을 수 있는 기회를 주었다. 매우 분석적이고, 경기를 깊게 연구한다. 나는 라파가 어떻게 경기 계획을 세우는지 봤고, 덕분에 난 더 성숙할 수 있었다. 라파에게 감사한다.
CARLO ANCELOTTI - A great man-manager with vast knowledge. He trusts his players and tries to keep everyone happy. He has great experience in the Champions League and he knows how to plan.
카를로 안첼로티 - 박학다식하고 대단한 인재관리자다. 선수들을 신뢰하고, 모두를 행복하게 해주려고 노력한다. 챔스에서의 대단한 경험이 있으며, 어떻게 계획을 짜야 하는지 안다.
JOSE MOURINHO - Really methodical with a clear idea of what he wants. He is clear on how to motivate and keeps players on their toes. He is really intense, so passionate and that is one of his strengths. But he also has that tactical knowledge. He has a plan for each game.
주제 무리뉴 - 굉장히 체계적이면서 자신이 무엇을 원하는지 아는 감독이다. 어떻게 동기부여를 해야 할지 명확히 알고 있다. 매우 열심이고 열정적이라는 점이 무리뉴의 강점 중 하나다. 하지만 전술적 지식 또한 갖추고 있다. 매 경기에 대한 플랜이 있다.
VICENTE DEL BOSQUE - More in the Ancelotti-style, a player from the 70s, 80s. He is very clever but not as intense. He keeps a low profile, keeps everyone happy and has done it very well for years. He had a lot of confidence in me for the national team.
빈센테 델 보스케 - 좀 더 안첼로티 같은 스타일, 70, 80년대 선수이다. 매우 영리하지만 그렇게 열심이진 않다. 저자세를 유지하면서, 모두를 행복하게 유지하는데, 이를 수 년간 성공적으로 해왔다. 국가대표에서 나에 대한 그의 신뢰는 매우 깊다.
PEP GUARDIOLA - It is the way he approaches each game. He designs a plan. He says 'we are here but need to get to there'. To go on this path, we need to do this and this and this to get here. The message he gives is unlike anything else.
펩 과르디올라 - 매 경기에 접근하는 방법이(강점/특징이)다. 펩은 작전을 설계한다. 펩은 "우린 여기에 있지만, 저기로 가야 한다"고 말한다. 그 지시를 따르기 위해서는 이것, 이것, 이것을 해야 한다. 펩이 전하는 메세지는 굉장히 독창적이다.
딱히 퇴고를 안해서 오타나 오역, 실수가 있을지도 모르겠네요. 낼 시험이라 후딱 번역하려고 엄청 달리기까지 해서...
바이에른/분데스리가 관련 내용만 번역하겠다고 한 건 추진력 시간을 얻기 위함이었는데 별 의미는 없었네요 ㅠㅠ
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